New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Future of RRS 17
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Future of RRS 17

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6253
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Future of RRS 17
    Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 3:52am
A thread elsewhere got me thinking about RRS17. In the very long term is it possible that rule 17 could disappear as an unnecessary complication?
The point about RRS17 is that the leeward boat acquires ROW.
When the overlap starts the leeward boat is the further back of the two and she cannot change course to windward without windward's stern swinging into her, so windward is protected by RRS 15/16. Once leeward is the further ahead and windward can respond to a change of course by leeward, subject still to 16.1, is it intrinsically wrong that the ROW boat is restricted?
The counter arguments in favour of 17 include, I suppose, that it is a traditional part of the game, and also that it creates a new protest situation with debate over whether the 16.1 protection applied...
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8562
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 7:08am
I think we lose some interesting tactics if we scrap rule 17. But I'm sure more would develop. It means the attacking boat would hold more cards. No idea if that is good or bad. Depends on where you are, I guess!
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 982
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 10:14am

Rule 17 in its entirety is deleted for match racing.

Here is the reasoning

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/23215RacingRulesofSailingNewRuleC2.6-[19350].pdf

Might work for MR, with one-design boats and competitors who know the rules, particularly the rule 11/rule 16 interactions,

I note that Mark Rushal's RYA Tactics book doesn't mention rule 17 anywhere:  the assumption is that competitive (one-design) boats will pro-actively position themselves so that rule 17 never comes into effect.

OK, but for non-top-notch-competitors, in mixed fleets, I'm not convinced it is unnecessary.  Lord knows, it's not that difficult.

While there are people around still talking about 'luffing rights' and 'overtaking boats', I don't think deleting rule 17 is all that good an idea.

Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6253
Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 10:28am
Originally posted by Brass

While there are people around still talking about 'luffing rights' and 'overtaking boats', I don't think deleting rule 17 is all that good an idea.

That was what got me thinking. If a substantial percentage of sailors get confused about proper course and RRS 17, maybe there's some mileage in eliminating it from section 2.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8562
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 10:45am
It certainly seems like a hang over from overtaking boat keeps clear. But it also hits a certain aspect of fair play, which isn't needed in match racing in the same way.
Firefly 2324, Lightning 130, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446
Back to Top
Brass View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 24 Mar 08
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 982
Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 20 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by Rupert

It certainly seems like a hang over from overtaking boat keeps clear.

Rather it was a hangover from Leeward may luff as she pleases except ... 

 
Originally posted by Rupert

But it also hits a certain aspect of fair play, which isn't needed in match racing in the same way.

Yes, I think that's right, specially when it used to be complemented by rule 17.2, so you had:
  1. leeward boat can't sail too high;
  2. windward boat can't sail too low.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy