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Definition of Planing

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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 4:40pm
In the fleets that I sail there are a handful of known Rock níRollers. I often donít bother to turn up if there is little wind and they are sailing ... it is not a lot of fun racing with them.  If it is windy I am less fussed.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 19 at 2:27pm
Funny how nothings changed down the years, my view, being the person most responsible for forcing the pace re pumping and windsurfing which I don't regret, but accept the negative effect it had according to some at club level, I would however countenance that it should be resisted. In my dinghy world which is two fold, down the lake it gets policed, well I get policed by the Miracle mums to the point as soon as I stand up they start shouting, but I accept that and as long as there is policing and everyone gets policed then it's good not to have it, but that can only come from the fleet and be made to stick.
Now the sea is a different matter, it can be very long and boring hiking legs and the waves do make a big difference if handled correctly, even just easing the sheets on and off as they pass or as the boat rolls with them and it is a skill, not that energetic either. Ben Ainslie-ing it down the reach is perhaps a different matter and tbh I didn't rate his technique and timing, applied as it was, just rowing none stop, which I don't think should be permitted, genuine pumping at the right moment in tune with the kinetic action of the wave is a very hard earned skill and varies quite dramatically to different rocker lengths in it's positive and negative effects, I can thrash away all I want in some wave length and types and go backwards whereas others I can pick up yards ten at a time.
But, who's to judge? It can only be the other fleet members and if they're happy to put up with the sport becoming more of an atheletic than a cranial past time then they risk losing members to classes that view the opposite. From the moment I first took a sail in hand, I couldn't help myself but use it to urge the craft to greater speed, but that wasn't a fixed rig and I think the more fixed the rig the more illegal it should be to pump it, so unstayed wobbly mono rigs should be OK, but stayed rig classes should perhaps be more restrictive in kinetics, if you were looking for a simple solution which of course there isn't one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 19 at 5:05pm
I originally disagreed with unlimited pumping on windsurfers but eventually got quite good at it. I agree with restricting it in dinghies though. The present rules seem to be about right as long as the sailors police themselves (which they do at my 'serious' racing club).
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 4:38pm
Just going back to the OP.
Not all terms used within the RRS are defined.
Within the Introductory preamble to the rules is the paragraph 'terminology' where there is a glossary of terms. Below this it states 'other words and terms are used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical or general use'.
I guess what you are challenging is whether 'planing' is ordinarily understood?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 8:26pm
I guess we know it when we see it.
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 8:34pm
Thanks Andymac. Yes, thatís it exactly. I donít believe naval architects and scientists have a common definition and even if they did it wouldnít be practical to use any such definition in the heat of a race. I donít know if Rupert and I, say, would agree his Firefly is planing when is churning downwind at 9kts. So there must be some case law on it?
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 9:04pm
Would you say this Enterprise is planing ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FbWTFJ3kV0
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 9:20pm
I donít know. I donít think these 200s are, but others may disagree.

200s planing?
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423zero View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 9:35pm
The 200's look like they are planing once the kites go up, but the appearance of planing could just be the kite lifting the bow, in both videos boats are going fast, I always assumed planing is when boat sits back and bow is lifted clear of water ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 19 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by Peaky

I donít know. I donít think these 200s are, but others may disagree.

200s planing?


They're not planing, planing as I understood it was less than half of the boat/board in contact with the water having overtaken the bow wave.

I don't think I've ever truly planed in the sense I know planing in a dinghy except once on a very very windy leg in an L3k with my crew flat wiring and a beam reach, it did occasionally come fully unstuck.

All that nonesense aboy Blazes 'planing' upwind for example just brings a smile.

Someone find me a picture or movie clip of a dinghy planing please.. even this little Farr, which is 3.7 long and quite light on the odd occasion i have fully wound it up, it doesn't come right unstuck.

It's one thing that great white elephant v2 did, on flat water it did shift rockers as it was supposed to and came unstuck.

The biggest problem as I see it for dinghies is the tremendous down force the rig applies to the nose, even if you do break free, the very next wave and the nose buries and off the plane you come. Even those over powered out of control cherubs you see tail walking, I wouldn't define that as planing in the true sense.
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