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Definition of Planing

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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 8:19am
So, back to the OP, if you see someone do a single pump how can you tell that is both a. in response to a gust and b. In an effort to get planing? Both conditions are necessary to be a legal move, but I don’t see how a jury could find you in breach if neither gust nor planing are defined.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 8:38am
There's plenty of help about. Here's a starter for 10...

http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/42Interpretationsforbooklet-15296.pdf

(Link fixed after struggling with daft URLs with square brackets. Web search for RRS 42 examples for lots more...)


1_Rule_421.pdf

Edited by JimC - 03 Mar 19 at 8:54am
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 8:42am
Thanks, but neither link works. I did read the interpretations but I still don’t see a definition of planing, or gust, so who is to say that my action didn’t initiate planing if we can’t agree what it is (or whether I was in a gust).

Edited by Peaky - 03 Mar 19 at 8:45am
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:03am
Basically it’s massively subjective and judges just make their own opinions about it, often elderly judges who have never sailed dinghies in the modern age sitting in boats hundreds of yards away, adding an element of inconsistency! You could never get clarification or claim redress against poor decisions of which there were many ie say “that pump was on a wave / gust” or “that roll was to enable / facilitate steering of 3.2 degrees” etc. Just about the only unambiguous policeable one was for sculling on start lines, which is a nonsense as nobody is looking to propel themselves, just change heading at zero forward speed pre start.
It’s very rare to see of hear sailors protesting each other at club to international level on r42.

“He rocked / pumped repeatedly etc at that time..” “No I didn’t” or “there was a wave/ gust” or “I steered” then you are back to how big is a wave, how can you measure it etc.
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Peaky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:22am
Subjective and without redress? Yikes!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Daniel Holman


It’s very rare to see of hear sailors protesting each other at club to international level on r42.

But very common to hear sailors complaining about other sailors breaking propulsion rules.
The only time I can recall being on the wrong end of a protest was club sailing back in the 70s. It got very acrimonious. We won, but the PC effectively told us we were lucky to get away with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Peaky

Subjective and without redress? Yikes!


Yep if you didn’t do turns immediately you get dnd or something like that, possibly disciplinary hearing too.
Happy days!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Peaky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:55am
How is that allowed? An ambiguous rule, subjectively applied and penalised without a hearing. What could possibly go wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 9:56am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Daniel Holman


It’s very rare to see of hear sailors protesting each other at club to international level on r42.

But very common to hear sailors complaining about other sailors breaking propulsion rules.
The only time I can recall being on the wrong end of a protest was club sailing back in the 70s. It got very acrimonious. We won, but the PC effectively told us we were lucky to get away with it.


True - think that especially light air rolling you get some club sailors going over the top, as there aren’t judges.
As a self policing sport, it’s hard to make protests on this sort of stuff without it feeling personal and acrimonious to at least one party.
Probs best dealt with diplomatically with a chat in first instances.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 19 at 10:01am
Originally posted by Peaky

How is that allowed? An ambiguous rule, subjectively applied and penalised without a hearing. What could possibly go wrong?


Ach it all generally finds an equilibrium.
Tbh most of the laser sailing I did, which outside windsurfing and Finn with free pumping, is one of the most kinetic classes, the best guys did as much kinetics as they wanted / could and it wouldn’t draw too much heat as it was in the lighter part of the grey area.
Apart from sculling to change heading whilst stationary, Judges in boats 100yds away don’t like seeing leeches flicking or arms moving fast. (Where does continuous sheeting start and “pumping” stop?) but to be honest no top laser sailors ever do what the rule describes pumping as.
Much quicker / more transient / done through body weight.
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